SaunaGids forum index
Alles over de sauna
 
 FAQFAQ   ZoekenZoeken   GebruikerslijstGebruikerslijst   GebruikersgroepenGebruikersgroepen   RegistreerRegistreer  ProfielProfiel   Log in om je privé berichten te bekijkenLog in om je privé berichten te bekijken   InloggenInloggen 
SaunaGids forum index Naar SaunaGids Website SaunaGids forum index

Question regarding booking massage treatments at Dutch spas
Ga naar pagina 1, 2, 3  Volgende
 
Plaats nieuw bericht   Plaats reactie    SaunaGids forum index -> Foreign Sauna-Fans in English.
Vorige onderwerp :: Volgende onderwerp  
Auteur Bericht
Spafan
10 Badenkaart


Geregistreerd op: 16-8-2011
Berichten: 10

BerichtGeplaatst: Di Aug 16, 2011 6:10 pm    Onderwerp: Question regarding booking massage treatments at Dutch spas Reageer met quote

I'm a big fan of Dutch and German spas and the etiquette and culture that goes with them. Sadly in England we have nothing really that compares to it.

Anyway my query is regarding when booking massages at spas. I have had two seperate massages treatments at Spa Zuiver in Amsterdam, both of which were with female therapists. Though I did notice there were a couple of male therapists on duty. Even though there is nothing sexual involved in spa massages, my preference would be for a female therapist giving the massage treatment. I would not really want a male to give me massages such as Hot Stone Massage, Aroma Sole Scrub, etc - massages which involve me being nude. So my question is, is it considered perfectly acceptable when booking a massage to specify your preference of gender of therapist? Or would this be frowned upon?

Thanks.
Naar boven
Bekijk gebruikers profiel Stuur privé bericht
Han
Site Admin


Geregistreerd op: 17-10-2004
Berichten: 1238

BerichtGeplaatst: Di Aug 16, 2011 6:28 pm    Onderwerp: Re: Question regarding booking massage treatments at Dutch s Reageer met quote

Spafan schreef:
I'm a big fan of Dutch and German spas and the etiquette and culture that goes with them. Sadly in England we have nothing really that compares to it.

Anyway my query is regarding when booking massages at spas. I have had two seperate massages treatments at Spa Zuiver in Amsterdam, both of which were with female therapists. Though I did notice there were a couple of male therapists on duty. Even though there is nothing sexual involved in spa massages, my preference would be for a female therapist giving the massage treatment. I would not really want a male to give me massages such as Hot Stone Massage, Aroma Sole Scrub, etc - massages which involve me being nude. So my question is, is it considered perfectly acceptable when booking a massage to specify your preference of gender of therapist? Or would this be frowned upon?

Thanks.


I don't think it will be a problem if you ask for a female therapist.
Such a request is not very common in the Netherlands but a good Spa will accept such a request if they have enough male/female personal available.

BTW, is there any good reason why there is no Spa culture in the UK?
_________________
Saunacultuur: maak Nederland badkledingvrij!
Naar boven
Bekijk gebruikers profiel Stuur privé bericht Bekijk de homepage
Bigfoot
Site Admin


Geregistreerd op: 28-8-2009
Berichten: 573
Woonplaats: Baarn

BerichtGeplaatst: Di Aug 16, 2011 7:46 pm    Onderwerp: Reageer met quote

Don't worry, this is a normal request.

As long as you don't ask for a happy ending you won't be frowned upon.
Naar boven
Bekijk gebruikers profiel Stuur privé bericht
Spafan
10 Badenkaart


Geregistreerd op: 16-8-2011
Berichten: 10

BerichtGeplaatst: Di Aug 16, 2011 11:32 pm    Onderwerp: Reageer met quote

Thank you both for your replies. It is reassuring to know that there won't be a problem if I request a female therapist for a massage treatment. I'm planning a short holiday to The Netherlands soon and will probably book a massage whilst at one of the large spas. And I know that there could be a chance I get booked with a male therapist for my massage if I don't request otherwise. So this time I will request a female therapist when booking to make sure.

To expand further. If it was just say a back, neck, and shoulder massage only I wouldn't really have a problem if it was a male therapist. But for a full body massage which would involve me being nude and include massage of the buttocks, then no I really wouldn't want a male to give the massage. It just wouldn't feel right for me. It would have to be a female. I'm sure I'm not the only guy who feels this way.

When I was at Spa Zuiver last year whilst waiting in the massage/treatment reception area, I noticed two masseurs amongst the otherwise all (attractive) female staff. One of the masseurs was a balding guy who was aged about late 30's to early 40's, and of a little above average build. Anyway he came out to the reception area and called out the surname for one of the male clients. The look on the guys face was priceless as the masseur greeted him with a handshake. He looked in total disbelief and dissapointment that it was a guy who would be giving him a massage, and seemingly reluctantly shook his hand and followed the masseur off to the massage room.

As for the reasons why there is no proper spa culture in the UK, the reasons are various. I will explain more in another posting later.
Naar boven
Bekijk gebruikers profiel Stuur privé bericht
Bigfoot
Site Admin


Geregistreerd op: 28-8-2009
Berichten: 573
Woonplaats: Baarn

BerichtGeplaatst: Wo Aug 17, 2011 7:37 am    Onderwerp: Reageer met quote

Good idea of you to visit a sauna in Holland. If you are going for a whole day, you might also go a bit further from Amsterdam. For example, sauna Veluwse Bron is a real gem. It takes a bit more travel but you will be rewarded.

About massages, I normally also prefer the feel of female hands. But my experience at sauna's is that they often are not capable of a really good (strong) massage.

Once I had a massage by a guy looking more or less the same as the one you described. It was in Belgium and the guy was short and looked like a body builder. I thought "oh no" where did all these pretty girls go..... but the massage was really great, and left me satisfied. At the end you lie face down and it doesn't really matter who makes it.
Naar boven
Bekijk gebruikers profiel Stuur privé bericht
rdj
50 Badenkaart


Geregistreerd op: 22-12-2008
Berichten: 54
Woonplaats: Hilversum

BerichtGeplaatst: Wo Aug 17, 2011 4:03 pm    Onderwerp: Reageer met quote

Spafan schreef:
<...>
When I was at Spa Zuiver last year whilst waiting in the massage/treatment reception area, I noticed two masseurs amongst the otherwise all (attractive) female staff. One of the masseurs was a balding guy who was aged about late 30's to early 40's, and of a little above average build. Anyway he came out to the reception area and called out the surname for one of the male clients. The look on the guys face was priceless as the masseur greeted him with a handshake. He looked in total disbelief and dissapointment that it was a guy who would be giving him a massage, and seemingly reluctantly shook his hand and followed the masseur off to the massage room.
<...>

This sounds pretty bizarre: your muscles will not care if the masseur is male or female, or what the masseur looks like. It makes me wonder what he had in mind.
Naar boven
Bekijk gebruikers profiel Stuur privé bericht
Spafan
10 Badenkaart


Geregistreerd op: 16-8-2011
Berichten: 10

BerichtGeplaatst: Wo Aug 17, 2011 6:59 pm    Onderwerp: Reageer met quote

rdj schreef:
Spafan schreef:
<...>
When I was at Spa Zuiver last year whilst waiting in the massage/treatment reception area, I noticed two masseurs amongst the otherwise all (attractive) female staff. One of the masseurs was a balding guy who was aged about late 30's to early 40's, and of a little above average build. Anyway he came out to the reception area and called out the surname for one of the male clients. The look on the guys face was priceless as the masseur greeted him with a handshake. He looked in total disbelief and dissapointment that it was a guy who would be giving him a massage, and seemingly reluctantly shook his hand and followed the masseur off to the massage room.
<...>

This sounds pretty bizarre: your muscles will not care if the masseur is male or female, or what the masseur looks like. It makes me wonder what he had in mind.


He seemed like a decent bloke and don't think for a minute he had anything sexual in mind. He just seemed somewhat surprised that it was a male therapist for his massage and not a female. I saw him return from his massage just after I returned from my massage. He was met by his girlfriend/wife who was with him at the spa. And he seemed a lot more relaxed and refreshed after his massage.
Naar boven
Bekijk gebruikers profiel Stuur privé bericht
rdj
50 Badenkaart


Geregistreerd op: 22-12-2008
Berichten: 54
Woonplaats: Hilversum

BerichtGeplaatst: Wo Aug 17, 2011 7:31 pm    Onderwerp: Reageer met quote

Spafan schreef:

He seemed like a decent bloke and don't think for a minute he had anything sexual in mind. He just seemed somewhat surprised that it was a male therapist for his massage and not a female. <...>

Perhaps he had never noticed before that about half the world population is male, and not realized there may be male massage therapists around as well? Laughing
Naar boven
Bekijk gebruikers profiel Stuur privé bericht
Spafan
10 Badenkaart


Geregistreerd op: 16-8-2011
Berichten: 10

BerichtGeplaatst: Ma Aug 22, 2011 9:50 pm    Onderwerp: Re: Question regarding booking massage treatments at Dutch s Reageer met quote

Han schreef:

BTW, is there any good reason why there is no Spa culture in the UK?


OK, If I could try and answer this as best I can in my own words.....

There is no sauna/spa culture here in the UK firstly because there are hardly any sauna/spa centres here in UK. The saunas/spas that do exist, mostly are in gyms/fitness clubs. And from my observations, only a small minority of gym users go in the spa area after their workouts.

And the sauna etiqutte and dress code is very different here to, compared to such countries as Germany and the Netherlands.

Here it is pretty much the standard rule that "swimwear must be worn at ALL times" in any unisex spa areas. This rule is ususally relaxed in single seks spas/sessions - but even that is beginning to change now, with the swimwear compulsory rule becoming more commonplace.

Attitudes to nudity amongst most British people are very different to our Dutch and German cousins. Here most people can't seem to seperate seks and nudity. And think that mixed nudity should be reserved for couples in a sexual situation. People thinking that people naked in a public place is disgusting, vulgar, exhibitionist, etc. People offended by nudity.

Allthough I'm sure there are a fair number(but by no means the majority of) of British men who would like to go without clothing in unisex spas, the number of British women who would be happy and comfortable to go without clothing in unisex spas would appear to be very very minimal. This is probably due to there being an "over awareness" of perverts/men taking advantage of such a situation. Any men present would be deemed as potential perverts. And also because they simply don't know of and understand that it's far more healthy, beneficial, and relaxing to enjoy saunas and steam rooms without clothing.

There are several unisex spas in the UK that DO allow nude use. However most of these call themselves a "naturist" spa or health club. But are in fact more like a "swingers" club really. And unless you're into that scene, these spas should be avoided at all costs. There are some exceptions to this however. The first is a small naturist spa and hotel in Birmingham which has been open about 8 months now. Which is aimed at naturists and those who wish to enjoy a sauna and steam without clothing. Any innapropriate behaviour will not be tolerated. Attracts mainly men and older(40+) couples though at the mo. A nice little spa though. And there are also some travelling saunas which goto some of the Summer festivals in the UK. The dress code is clothing optional. And indeed most people go nude. And also pretty much a 50/50 mix of sexes too. Allmost un-British like really.

I and a few others I know of have emailed some spas asking if they would be willing to trial clothing optional sessions in their unisex spas/sessions. But it generally is the case that we get no reply. And are completely unwilling to even trail such sessions. The reasons being including the afore-mentioned "over awareness" of potential perverts. And assuming that most spa customers would simply not be comfortable with any nude people present. And that men should not be allowed to see naked women,and vice versa! And because nudity in unisex spas is generally not the norm in the UK.

From what I understand, things were a lot more relaxed back in the 70's and 80's - a time when I was not using spas(I didn't go in a sauna untill the year 2002!). People were more relaxed with nudity back in those days, and the "please wear swimwear at ALL times" rule was not as much the norm as it is nowadays. There is a good article here from way back in 1971 about one such spa http://news.google.com/newspapers?nid=1310&dat=19710602&id=dckTAAAAIBAJ&sjid=PuEDAAAAIBAJ&pg=4559,302639

Things have certainly changed over the last decade or so. And not for the better. Nowadays it is even becoming regarded as being odd and unnaceptable behaviour to be naked in seks segregated changing rooms in gyms!

When I have been at Dutch and German spas and chatted to some others(men and women) they can not believe it when I tell them we have to wear swimwear in unisex spas in the UK!

I love the Dutch and German spas and their accompanying spa culture, and their more healthy attitudes to nudity. Just wish things were even half as good in the UK.
Naar boven
Bekijk gebruikers profiel Stuur privé bericht
whulsbergen
LŲylymeester


Geregistreerd op: 20-4-2009
Berichten: 430

BerichtGeplaatst: Di Aug 23, 2011 7:20 am    Onderwerp: Reageer met quote

Quote:
The first is a small naturist spa and hotel in Birmingham which has been open about 8 months now. Which is aimed at naturists and those who wish to enjoy a sauna and steam without clothing. Any innapropriate behaviour will not be tolerated. Attracts mainly men and older(40+) couples though at the mo.


The sauna-environment is out of balance. As most of the visitors that go to a nude/naturist sauna are men/old people, the few women/young people won't feel comfortable. And so they don't go and the situation stays the same.

This is by the way the same in bars, and is the reason barkeepers give women free drinks, enty and so forth.

In the Netherlands and Germany we are very lucky that in the sauna's the situation is very balanced with regarding to sexes and age. In fact it is quite common to read a story of a woman trying to get her boyfried/husband to go with her.

For Brittain (and the USA too) I think it will be very difficult to change this as the non-nudity culture is embedded strongly in the society. But if enough Britisch people come here and have the Dutch Sauna Experience, maybe some day things can change. Keep hoping Very Happy
Naar boven
Bekijk gebruikers profiel Stuur privé bericht
Bigfoot
Site Admin


Geregistreerd op: 28-8-2009
Berichten: 573
Woonplaats: Baarn

BerichtGeplaatst: Di Aug 23, 2011 7:41 am    Onderwerp: Reageer met quote

I can imagine it is not easy to change such a situation in the UK. Perhaps it would make senses to start with women-only days and market these thru women's health magazines. After that customer base has been established this could evolve in mixed gender days.
Naar boven
Bekijk gebruikers profiel Stuur privé bericht
rdj
50 Badenkaart


Geregistreerd op: 22-12-2008
Berichten: 54
Woonplaats: Hilversum

BerichtGeplaatst: Di Aug 23, 2011 8:26 am    Onderwerp: Reageer met quote

Perhaps you can find more opportunities through naturist societies, who organize nude swims, etc. A quick search on the internet revealed a website with useful information on Victorian Turkish baths as well as a few other useful looking websites like this one, this one, and this one. Of course, it will depend on your location as well. Where in the UK are you located?

As far as I know public nudity in itself is not outlawed in England whereas it is in general in The Netherlands. The problem seems to be the attitude.
Naar boven
Bekijk gebruikers profiel Stuur privé bericht
Han
Site Admin


Geregistreerd op: 17-10-2004
Berichten: 1238

BerichtGeplaatst: Di Aug 23, 2011 7:11 pm    Onderwerp: Reageer met quote

@Spafan:

Thanks a lot for your story about the Spa culture in the UK.
I am really shocked by reading the whole story.

I already thought of a conservative culture where nudity in public is considered vulgar and disgusting.

You know from you own experience that this is not true at all!
Are the people in the Netherlands and Germany who visits Spa's all disgusting people?
I don't think so.
As whulsbergen already told in his reaction, there is a very well balanced mix of people, men and women of all ages.

It looks like you have a "chicken or egg" situation in the UK.
Not enough Spa's and the wrong people visiting the scarce Spa's who have a mixed/nude access.

There would be a huge business potential for a sauna entrepreneur who would start a Spa in the UK only for a mixed/naked audience. If you manage to start such a Spa and convince the people that it is not vulgar but fun people will visit your place from all the country.

Please note that here in the Netherlands 30-40 years ago the sauna culture was not very huge either. At that time a lot of people considered the sauna as a place to meet people to have seks which was not true at all.
Time changed, and at least for the last 10-15 years a lot of big Spa's started very successfully. Some Spa's manage to serve 500-600 people or more each day.

There is only one remark for the Spa's in the Netherlands.
Since about two years there is a tendency to introduce more "badkledingdagen" (access only with bathing suits). These days are mixed.
One of my favourite Spa's (Zwaluwhoeve) introduced a weekly with-clothes-only Tuesday. Before that time the frequency of bathing suits day's was about twice a month.
We (as Spa fans) don't like this development at all.
We had huge discussion on this forumboard about this. Emailing and talking to Spa's owners did not help. They just don't want to skip these day's because of the money.
_________________
Saunacultuur: maak Nederland badkledingvrij!
Naar boven
Bekijk gebruikers profiel Stuur privé bericht Bekijk de homepage
Spafan
10 Badenkaart


Geregistreerd op: 16-8-2011
Berichten: 10

BerichtGeplaatst: Di Aug 23, 2011 7:45 pm    Onderwerp: Reageer met quote

whulsbergen schreef:

The sauna-environment is out of balance. As most of the visitors that go to a nude/naturist sauna are men/old people, the few women/young people won't feel comfortable. And so they don't go and the situation stays the same.

In the Netherlands and Germany we are very lucky that in the sauna's the situation is very balanced with regarding to sexes and age. In fact it is quite common to read a story of a woman trying to get her boyfried/husband to go with her.

For Brittain (and the USA too) I think it will be very difficult to change this as the non-nudity culture is embedded strongly in the society. But if enough Britisch people come here and have the Dutch Sauna Experience, maybe some day things can change. Keep hoping Very Happy


Yes it's not a great balance of sexes really. A little too male dominated, and pretty much any of the few females that are present are with their male partners and over 40 odd. Though the female staff do join guests in the spa area at times when they're off duty. I'm all for there being a more balanced mix of sexes and ages, and a mix of couples, guys on their own, ladies on their own, a small group of ladies together, etc - similar to what you'd get in a typical Dutch or German spa. The manager of this spa is keen to try and change things however, by attracting more people aged under 30 and more women to visit the spa, by targetting non naturists womens magazines with marketing. Don't know how successful that will be.

One of the issues with this spa though is that it markets itself as a "naturist spa". And as most naturists in the UK are men over the age of 40, this is probably why it's so male dominated as it's pretty much mostly naturists who go there. And people who are not naturists but who like to enjoy a sauna without clothing may still not be too keen on visiting as they may think they have to be a naturist by lifestyle to visit there. And also women thinking it will be very male dominated, so they would not be keen on visiting especially if on their own.

There is a leisure centre in the North East region of the UK which has a clothing optional mixed session in their spa every Sunday evening. This is probably the only leisure centre/gym in the country which allows nude use within a unisex spa area. Nothing to do with any naturist club or anything. This session used to be branded as "Naturist" but they changed it to the more appropriate "Clothing Optional" after I suggested it to them. However unfortunately it is pretty much 100% men over the age of 40 who go there every week, the majority of whom are naturists and live locally within Yorkshire. The problem being that with there being hardly any saunas which allow nude use, a lot of the naturist men living within the region go there every Sunday. And with it being so male dominated, very very few females ever go there. If I could imagine myself if I was a female I would not be very keen to go there on my own, and there being all middle aged and pensioner aged men there and no other women atall.

There needs to be more unisex spas dotted around the UK which do allow nude use, but which aren't branded as "naturist" spas. Only then could there be some hope of things improving. But this happening is very unlikely sadly. As most spa/leisure centre managers refuse to relax their swimwear compulsory dress code rule. Even though nudity in unisex spas is certainly not outlawed/strictly forbidden here in the UK.

Yep I noticed that females generally tend to form the majority in Dutch spas. From my experience it's generally around 65% females in the large spas. When I first visited Spa Amsterdam Zuiver, it was more like around 85% females!
Naar boven
Bekijk gebruikers profiel Stuur privé bericht
whulsbergen
LŲylymeester


Geregistreerd op: 20-4-2009
Berichten: 430

BerichtGeplaatst: Wo Aug 24, 2011 7:05 am    Onderwerp: Reageer met quote

I'm not a woman myself, but cannot image a woman feeling comfortable in a clothing-optional spa, even in Holland. When everybody's naked, there's no problem and people hardly know that they are naked after a while. But if you see other guests who wear bathing suits, you tend to feel vulnerable. Which is not the best basis for a relaxing day.

As refering to couples, my guess is that even in Holland, the average age is around 35-40 and most people come as couple or with a group of friends. The single guests tend to be male, regular guests and over 40. You can easily spot them at the bar chatting or at the loyly making "funny" comments, just a little too loud.

One of the keys to the succes of the wellness in recent years in Holland is the very succesful marketing of Wellness as being healthy, trendy, fun and relaxing.

Large brands like Optimel offer 50% discounts on sauna-entry and have tv-commercials for it: click This has convinced many people to try it out, and once you're in, you're hooked.
Naar boven
Bekijk gebruikers profiel Stuur privé bericht
Berichten van afgelopen:   
Plaats nieuw bericht   Plaats reactie    SaunaGids forum index -> Foreign Sauna-Fans in English. Tijden zijn in GMT
Ga naar pagina 1, 2, 3  Volgende
Pagina 1 van 3

 
Ga naar:  
Je mag geen nieuwe onderwerpen plaatsen
Je mag geen reacties plaatsen
Je mag je berichten niet bewerken
Je mag je berichten niet verwijderen
Ja mag niet stemmen in polls


Powered by phpBB © 2001, 2005 phpBB Group