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Question regarding booking massage treatments at Dutch spas
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Han
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Geregistreerd op: 17-10-2004
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BerichtGeplaatst: Wo Aug 24, 2011 7:41 pm    Onderwerp: Reageer met quote

Spafan schreef:

..........
There needs to be more unisex spas dotted around the UK which do allow nude use, but which aren't branded as "naturist" spas. Only then could there be some hope of things improving. But this happening is very unlikely sadly. As most spa/leisure centre managers refuse to relax their swimwear compulsory dress code rule. Even though nudity in unisex spas is certainly not outlawed/strictly forbidden here in the UK.

Yep I noticed that females generally tend to form the majority in Dutch spas. From my experience it's generally around 65% females in the large spas. When I first visited Spa Amsterdam Zuiver, it was more like around 85% females!


Very true!
Branding spas as "naturist spas" is wrong.
Spa's (or sauna's as we call them here) have nothing to do with naturism at all.
I am pretty sure that the majority of the guest are not naturists.
Nudity in the spas is not similar as naturism.
Nudity in the spas is functional, naturism is non-functional. Naturists like to walk/create in the nude on a camping or elsewhere because they like it, not because there is a need for it.

You marketing spas without clothing should be done without linking it to naturism
That's what happened here in the Netherlands many years ago too.
In the beginning probably more naturists visit the spas because they were already used to walk around naked and with mixed genders.
That changed. For years you see a very mixed audience which is fine.
Even people with foreign traditional backgrounds (ie. Arabic, Moroccan, Turkish etc) visit spas sometimes. Not at lot, but it started already.

What whulsbergen said is also true.
Successful marketing the spas as being healthy, trendy, fun and relaxing does help.
The Zwaluwhoeve for example is famous about the aggressive marketing.
You may like it or not, but it does work.
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Spafan
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Geregistreerd op: 16-8-2011
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BerichtGeplaatst: Do Aug 25, 2011 11:57 pm    Onderwerp: Reageer met quote

Han schreef:
@Spafan:

Thanks a lot for your story about the Spa culture in the UK.
I am really shocked by reading the whole story.

I already thought of a conservative culture where nudity in public is considered vulgar and disgusting.

You know from you own experience that this is not true at all!
Are the people in the Netherlands and Germany who visits Spa's all disgusting people?
I don't think so.
As whulsbergen already told in his reaction, there is a very well balanced mix of people, men and women of all ages.

It looks like you have a "chicken or egg" situation in the UK.
Not enough Spa's and the wrong people visiting the scarce Spa's who have a mixed/nude access.


Hi Han.

I feel I should expend and elaborate a little more on posting you replied to.

I said that most British people regard naked people in a public place as disgusting and vulgar. These are strong words, in particular the world vulgar. I wouldn't really say most of the British popular would regard naked people in a public place as vulgar. I think though a more appropriate word to use would be "indecent". And a fair percentage of the British public would regard non-sexual practical nudity in public as indecent sadly.

There's an article here about a swimming pool in the UK which has banned users from showering naked(within the single seks changing rooms!) in case children are offended! http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1245001/Swimming-pool-users-banned-showering-naked-case-children-offended.html#comments

Also most British people are very body conscious. Even if they have no objections to people naked in public, most would not feel comfortable being naked in front of strangers - particularly strangers of the opposite seks. This would be more the case for women, compared to men. Another thing related to this is, here in the UK our saunas cabins are much smaller than what you'd typically get in the Netherlands and Germany. So with smaller sauna cabins and less space, I guess this would also effect how comfortable/uncomfortable someone being nude would be.

Basically it's stuffed up attitudes to nudity we have in the UK. People offended/objecting to naked people, and people who be very uncomfortable being naked in front of others. Also sadly some men who abuse the situation in any of the few spas that do/did allow nude use.....

A couple of years ago I found out about a spa very local to me which had unisex clothing optional sessions a couple of days per week. I learned that about 8 years ago however, the spa management changed the rules to "swimwear compulsory" during all mixed and men only sessions. Then from then untill 2009 "couples sessions" had a clothing optional dress code, but even that has become swimwear compulsory now. For female only sessions - a clothing optional dress code still exists. When I emailed them to enquire if they could introduce/re-introduce unisex clothing optional sessions, here is what they replied with....

Quote:

Thankyou for you query - We did have a nude policy for mixed days for many years, (about 10 years altogether), but during that time people, unfortunately, abused this situation more and more.
We tried very hard to make it work, but sadly and some what disappointedly, we have had to come to the conclusion that the British just are not ready or mature enough to deal with nudity in a mixed, non relationship setting.
I hope this answers your question. If you have any others please do get back in contact.


An example of men acting innapropriately and forcing the spa to change the dress code rules to swimwear compulsory except for female only sessions.

It's all a very sad state of affairs overall.

I am all in favour of the sensible healthy attitudes to nudity that you Dutch and Germans have. And this is the attitude to nudity I myself have. In a spa/sauna environment there is certainly nothing wrong with people being naked, and men and women naked together in a non-sexual environment. What's the problem? It is practical nudity. I just wish a lot more British people could have these attitudes to nudity that I have.

And I certainly agree. At spas in Germany and the Netherlands there is a very good mix of men and women of all ages, all enjoying a sauna and steam.

These are the reasons I would describe as to why it's to best to sauna without clothing. It is actually unhygenic and unhealthy to wear any clothing in saunas and steam rooms. To get the full benefits of such facilities, no clothing should be worn. It is much more beneficial, healthy and relaxing to sauna naked. It allows the whole body and skin to breathe, which is not possible if youíre wearing sticky swimwear. It is more practical to be naked, just like it is more practical to be naked to take a bath or shower.
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Han
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BerichtGeplaatst: Vr Aug 26, 2011 8:58 am    Onderwerp: Reageer met quote

Quote:

We tried very hard to make it work, but sadly and some what disappointedly, we have had to come to the conclusion that the British just are not ready or mature enough to deal with nudity in a mixed, non relationship setting.


That says it all.
If people are not ready to accept their own body and the (naked) body of other people nothing will change.
In fact what you need in the UK is C-H-A-N-G-E.
The attitude has to be changed not the spa's itself although more and bigger spas will show up if people do change their attitude.

The word indecent is probably right, if a naked mixed people are considered as indicent you need to educate people why people are naked in spas. Not because the want to have seks but just because there is a functional need for it. Hygienic reasons why bathing suits are not healthy need to be explained.
A spa is not a swimming pool although people may think its about the same.
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kevin8
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BerichtGeplaatst: Vr Aug 26, 2011 9:14 am    Onderwerp: Reageer met quote

What i wonder, i wrote it earlier, is that the British, due by the reasons you describe, don't have such a spa/sauna culture as we have in the Netherlands and Germany. Except a few like the Silverleigh Naturist club in Kent with spafacilities, the well known Eureka naturist club with spa facilities, Cloverspa and Rio's naturist spa in London.
But on the other hand in Great Britain, they have each year in a lot of cities, like London, Brighton, Southampton, York, Bristol and Manchester the annual World Naked Bike ride (WNBR). Only London alone attracts hunderds of participants. In the Netherlands you have only 2 small WNBR's, one in Amsterdam and one in Wageningen. Another typical exemple is the well known New York's photographer Spencer Tunick who did several (>10?) shooting's, installations in the UK over the years.
Wink
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BerichtGeplaatst: Vr Aug 26, 2011 3:30 pm    Onderwerp: Reageer met quote

kevin8 schreef:
What i wonder, i wrote it earlier, is that the British, due by the reasons you describe, don't have such a spa/sauna culture as we have in the Netherlands and Germany. Except a few like the Silverleigh Naturist club in Kent with spafacilities, the well known Eureka naturist club with spa facilities, Cloverspa and Rio's naturist spa in London.
But on the other hand in Great Britain, they have each year in a lot of cities, like London, Brighton, Southampton, York, Bristol and Manchester the annual World Naked Bike ride (WNBR). Only London alone attracts hunderds of participants. In the Netherlands you have only 2 small WNBR's, one in Amsterdam and one in Wageningen. Another typical exemple is the well known New York's photographer Spencer Tunick who did several (>10?) shooting's, installations in the UK over the years.
Wink


Correct, the UK is lacking a healthy spa culture like we have here in the Netherlands.
I don't think an event like the World Naked Bike ride will change this.
Such a bike ride is not a major event, only a very small group of participants will join. The majority of naturists ignore the event and don't even think about it.
The target group of spa visitors is certainly not interested in naked biking.
Again, naturists do visit spas but the most spa visitors are not naturists and will not become one either.
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